those were the days, my friend - - -
Muralidhar Rao
HOT TOPICS
SPOTLIGHT AGENCIES
Capitalism Socialism etc - unload here
thumb_up 171
Written By asj - 13 July, 2009
[Forked off from BMTC thread. Moderation takes time, so do be considerate and create new threads for off-topic stuff. Like you'll all listen, but still :) - Moderator]
SB, Thanks for bring the focus back on the crux of the matter. To me this thread is about how to better the system, as are most of the threads, but we just don't seem to get away from bombastic phrases and rhetoric which blindly support privatisation as 'the' cure and socialist incling as the worst ill. As this is a public forum, I hate to think of the impact it will have on the reader passing by if some tangential, irrelevant and out of context statements which do not represent reality were left unchallenged. Air India example is so useless for this debate - for goodness sake, look around and there are heaps of big and small private airways in trouble. Not once have those who support models with socialist tinge suggested there is not a problem in their current avtar, nor has anyone said there is no need for improving - if anything we are open and accept there are problems unlike this blind love for privatisation as answer to all ills when examples of poor accountablity / corruption / poor service in privatised sector abound around us (I mean the reference to private postal service in India - frankly its unregulated, disorganised and pathetic compared to Govt post - we are just too lazy to go to the post office and want someone to come pick the post from our doorstep). Please take this debate to another thread if it helps satisfy the need to deny reality around privatisation.
Further, every sector privatised in India, there have been pushes and pulls from private players who have great influence within the Govt / ruling politicians. How come they manage to get all over the place when it comes to building a sea link or a metro? Let us talk privatisation using TVS or Tata or someone else if they show any incling to being part of this business where clearly the returns are not as high or risks big. Why would Tata get involved in public transport which affects sales of Nano? Is there any player identified, if not its pointless waste of our energy which can be invested in improving the current system.
BEST or London or where ever, there are bound to be sour grapes. Considering the amount of corruption the average BEST passenger mat be exposed or participating in, the BEST manages fairly high standards on this one. BEST already is expanding its useage of smart cards, they now have one which can be used on central railway as well and soon WR will become compliant with this.
Yet, to minimise loss, random ticket checking is required (BEST also uses plain clothes checkers). If we try and hypothetically agree that like London, Indian cities target 1% of all bus users, how many TCs do we need. If one checks 2-4 tickets a miinute but needs to spend 30 minutes on average getting the culprits to pay fine and do paperwork relating to it - how many passengers will one TC manage to screen per day per shift, how many are needed in BMTC to get there?
ASJ
COMMENTS
s_yajaman - 13 July, 2009 - 13:03
IDS, Murali-sir,
Please take time to read the following links as you consider capitalism the next best thing after sliced bread :). What I read from your posts is that if only the government got out of the way and we let all these noble capitalists in we would be living in the tropical version of the US or Europe.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/feb/02/energy.comment
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
One could argue that because we have not valued either fossil fuels or the environment fairly (a free market failure) , we have wasted precious limited resources on completely idiotic consumerism which we consider to be the good life that should be on offer to anyone who can afford it.
Capitalism thus far has proved to be the winner because we could both find cheap energy and burn it easily without bothering about the environment. Both assumptions are going to be increasingly challenged in the next decade.
As for "those were the days", can any Bangalorean actually say honestly that the quality of life in this city has improved in the last 20 years? yes we get mobile phone connections, choice of cars, 150 flights a day, etc etc. And if we continue down this path what will be the fate of our children? Capitalism does not put any value on sustainability.
Srivathsa
Drive safe. It is not just the car maker which can recall its product.
idontspam - 13 July, 2009 - 12:54
Capitalism does not put any value on sustainability.
That is because it is now laissez faire. Especially in our country, where personal good rules over common good and private means personal. Govt can control what, where, when and how private players can participate, but admit the fact that govt dole makes a society dependent and treated as only consumers of whatever is doled out. Treat society as creators and make them producers and hence job creators. When there is choice the creators will multiply. Poverty will never be eliminated by dole. Naxals will never come into the mainstream because the govt promised jobs. Strong regulation is required to ensure success and this is where the govt should focus. Enable people to start businesses and support through regulation.
The lesson from the Financial meltdown was not that capitalism had failed but that regulation had not kept pace with the market.
The US govt slept on the job. Not for a moment has there been a thought that the US govt employ stock brokers to run the stock market or employ bankers to provide housing loans. In fact if you go deeper people will blame the govt for keeping interest rates artifically low instead of letting the market decide the rate which would have been a lot higher.
Look at the sucess of the NHDP. It is PPP all the way through. It has created an ecosystem of road builders and provided capacity for the future. You get better prices through bids. NHAI has finetuned their contract management and are still getting better. Does this mean there are no loopholes? NO. Does this mean this is perfect? NO. But did we think PWD should have done it? I am sure everyone will agree where that would have gotten us. A bloated organization with millions of people like the railways who wont have the knowledge and will build roads like BBMP builds for us with their 2 bit contractors and bad regulation.
psaram42 - 14 July, 2009 - 04:30
Socialism and capitalism are the two faces of the economic ideology coin. There could be many aberrations of these two basic ideologies. Capitalism existed for long before Adam Smith wrote in 1776 his book "The Wealth of Nations". The foundation of Capitalism is in government’s non interference in the economy, there by encouraging competition. Healthy competition depends on demand and supply principle. Socialism on the other hand favors cooperation.
The merits of competition are undisputable and so are the compulsions of cooperation. You can play with the ice-cream when the food on the table is plenty. When more mouths have to be fed sharing is joy. When the food on the table is far too short survival of the fittest or Leissez faire comes in to fore which is off topic. Oops!
Read and take a quiz on Socialism and capitalism
idontspam - 13 July, 2009 - 10:20
I think people have dropped from mars to believe they can run a pluralistic democracy of a billion people like a personal kingdom. The only socialism that is even possible to have without causing a breakdown of the economic system is a social security system. Everything else is a hogwash resulting in pilferage, corruption and proliferation of unionised extortion. To think that we are some great country where communist style equality will succeed is to think that soviet russia was a huge success to be celebrated. All these castles in the air are because we are a unitary state. I think it is best we convert this nation to a federation so we dont have people living the past trying to save humanity by having govt make soaps and incandescent bulbs for the poor and needy; or airlines, as if that were a real social requirement.
PRAJA.IN COMMENT GUIDELINES
Posting Guidelines apply for comments as well. No foul language, hate mongering or personal attacks. If criticizing third person or an authority, you must be fact based, as constructive as possible, and use gentle words. Avoid going off-topic no matter how nice your comment is. Moderators reserve the right to either edit or simply delete comments that don't meet these guidelines. If you are nice enough to realize you violated the guidelines, please save Moderators some time by editing and fixing yourself. Thanks!