COMMENTS

Following comments have been shifted here from "ABIDe: Bengaluru Vedike" blog - editor

1) Ignorance - Submitted by mcadambi on 23 January 2009 - 3:54pm.
RS - how ignorant can you be! The Yellow-Red (kempa haladi) flag represents Karnataka. If you find it wrong - then you are welcome to leave Karnataka.  


2) Regarding the flag - Submitted by Vinay on 23 January 2009 - 5:23pm.
I do not agree 100% with RS's criticism of the flag, and do not agree 100% with the way he has defined the KRV. But I must say that though the KRV's agenda is noble on paper, SEVERAL (not all) of the people who actually form the ranks of the KRV are not really what I would call "noble", especially the top rung.

The Karnataka flag is prominently visible in several places on Bellary road now, and guess what - Narayana Gowda's face has taken center position on the flag, replacing the Godess' image. This is just one of several, several examples which makes one feel that in terms of its leaders, KRV is not very different from the Bahujan Samaj Party or Rashtriya janata Dal. What d'you say Nijavaada?

3) Errata - Submitted by Vinay on 23 January 2009 - 5:26pm.
In my above post, the first line should read: "I do not agree with RS's criticism of the FLAG per se, and do not agree 100% with the way he has defined the KRV."

 
4) Kannada flag - part 2 - Submitted by rs on 24 January 2009 - 10:37am.
Hi

I am a little shocked and saddened by the reaction of many to my criticism of the Kannada Flag. While that has  little to do with Bangalore's infrastructure, which I think is the primary focus of this group, and perhaps this is not the place to have a discussion on it, nevertheless I would like to make the following points.

1. A simple google search will reveal that there is no such thing as an offcial Kannada or Karnataka flag. WIth the exception of J & K no state in India is allowed by the constitution to have a flag. Some information regarding its history can be found here  nithinkamath.info/archives/2007/04/is-it-the-karnataka-flag/

Further evidence for this is that the official website of the Government of Karnataka  www.karnataka.gov.in/  does not seems to have it anywhere.

2. While one might argue that the `KRV may be noble in its agenda' the reality is far from different. Their application of the `love me or leave' principle is completely wrong - and I am surprised that some of the prominent Praja contributors seem to subscribe to it. Bangalore, while it is part of Karnataka has a rather mixed history and one of the great things about Bangalore is that it has been rather inclusive - Auto drivers, for example, speak several languages - Kannada, Tamil, Hindi, English and sometimes Telegu and Malayalam - unlike Chennai, for example, where linguistic regionalism has resulted in a largely monolingual society. We live in a globalized world and if Bangalore is to aspire to be a world class city the impetus should be on multiligualism. It is ludicrous to expect everyone in Bangalore to speak Kannada in as much as it is ridiculous to expect everyone in London to speak English.

3. And before someone starts that - Kannada, as a language, unlike Irish or some obscure tribal dialect - is not under threat. There are plenty of  people who will continue to speak it as a first language regardless of whether signs in Bangalore are exclusively in English or not. Note that I am not against putting up signs in Kannada - I think they should be in English, Hindi and Kannada - but the regionalists insist on putting them up only in Kannada.

4. KRV does several destructive things - gheraoing and damaging office buildings and assaulting people whenever there is the slightest bit of alleged mistreatment of `Kannadigas'. Putting up flagpoles in the middle of footpaths and streets which add to the already existing obstructions. Burning buses meaninglessly.

5. While the KRV seems to believe in the philosophy that they are doing things to the betterment of `Kannadigas' their actual actions seem to be more for the `worse'ment of `non Kannadigas'. A simple Google News search for `Kannada Rakshana Vedike' will show you that ALL their actions are destructive rather than constructive and I have a problem if a quasi-governmental organization like ABIDe implicitly endorses it. KRV seems to believe in the principle that if you damage, destroy or hurt a `non-Kannadiga' then you are doing good for `Kannadigas'.

6. Perhaps some of you are wondering why I put `Kannadiga' within quotes. Who is a Kannadiga ? Is it a person like me, who, while born in Bangalore spent most of his life out of it and while his mother tongue is Kannada  does not speak it fluently or is it a person like my neighbor, whose mother tongue is Rajasthani, but has lived all his adult life in Bangalore, works in Chikpeta and speaks Kannada fluently ? By the KRVs rather parochial outlook I would qualify as a Kannadiga but not him.

7. Finally - Bangalore has had a rather variied history and its only by accident at the time of independence that it was made part of Mysore state. Bangalore owes as much to Shivaji, Mirza Ismail and Vishweshwaraiya  to its development as it does to Kempe Gowda. None of these people would be considered Kannadigas and would have perhaps been asked to leave by the KRV. Personally I feel that major Indian cites - with a population of say 50 lakhs or more, for example - should be made in to union territories as that is the only way to escape from the clutches of regional politics.

8. I found it amusing - whether it was intentional or not - that the letters KKK was used to describe the actions of the KRV.

9. As I said, it is not my intention to start a `flame war' and in any case, I dont think this is the correct forum for it. So I am not going to discuss this issue any further in this forum.

Ramesh

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@ Vinay's remarks on the flag, KRV's stance and its approach..

You're bang on target about the flag and its relation to Karnataka state as such.

If the rule in relation with the state flag is indeed written somewhere, then the problem is with that piece of law, and not with states' intention to have a flag of their own! What are we living in? A federal, republic union of states, or a monarchy? And why does RS here think that J&K should be allowed to have its flag and not anyone else? Isnt it high time we got rid of such discriminatory rules instead of blindly advocating such things, and even posting them on Praja like forums with pride? So our focus can be to ensure our rule-book makes more sense in today's context.

@ RS's comments that Murali has put up here:

Coming to concerns raised over KRV's stance here. I think it is a common misconception that KRV goes around beating up people, bashing up buildings and such things. Well, to an untrained eye, social corrections often get depicted as mere rude behaviour. But reality is KRV is a mass of people that wont, at any cost, let injustice be done to Kannada, Kannadiga and Karnataka on Karnataka soil. In ensuring this, KRV uses all possible instruments within the law book to protest and present its point of view. In some unfortunate situations, these voices are not heard by the system even though it is the voice of nearly the entire of Karnataka! And as a consequence, whenever KRV has resorted to dandam dashagunam it has surely ensured injustice is ended, and then surrendered itself to the hands of law. This is not what an ignoble outfit would do, what with a top-rung of that kind as peevishly submitted by RS above. Certainly calls for correction in one's perspective, and sincere efforts to remove the parallax about KRV in their minds.

An action being defined constructive or destructive given by someone above displays the sheer material observation of progress and development in the submitter's mind. With all the "development" happening around us, but bringing sufferings to the people of this land on many occasions, the latter shockingly supersedes the former - the setting-right of which is the main goal of KRV. Of what avail is an industry or an institute to a people if it takes all benefits (to the order of 10s of thousands of crores per year) from them, and then returns a pittance in terms of all possible benefits of industrialisation of a society - be it employment to its people, or positive impact on its cultural heritage etc. Without any intention to sound anti-progress, there is sincerely no place for a piece of infrastrucutre in Karnataka, that is not ready to capitalise by and for Kannadigas in Karnataka. Believing in this is KRV and the biggest mass of people living in Karnataka. If culling these brings justice to Karnataka, it is indeed constructive, and not destructive. But what one needs to know is KRV is not doing just that, but has played an enabler role to many an industry in Karnataka. This is the dharma to which KRV is committed.

And about the 6th question by RS above, well my friend, to KRV, and to all the people of Karnataka, your neighbour in your question is a Kannadiga, and not you - unlike your parochial imagination about KRV. And it is in your willingness to be back as a Kannadiga again by gelling into your surroundings just like your neighbour did - my friend, I hope you realise it is called Chikkapete and not Chikpeta - mend your Kannada, now that you're back here :)

About your idea on union-territories and the void that it suggests - please be informed that in these times when UTs themselves are in the line of getting repealed across the nation, your claim denotes a rather childish perspective! As a comparison if your children are not doing well at school, on in the society, you dont disown them, neither do you just sell them to someone who you think can bring them back in-line! Not intending to get personal, but I feel you do NOT! Your comment about our cities to become UTs thus holds no water. Not something a wise and responsible citizen would be saying! The world is going glocal (global + local) my dear friend, and you, here in Praja, are saying India, contrastingly, should go the other way repealing regional needs and demands?!

-Nijavaada

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Dear RS,

Your (however) strong objection towards the reason of existence of a KRV or any such protesting body (for the sake of good of all Karnataka and Kannadigas residing in it) is CONDEMNED here.

In fact if you've been residing in Bengaluru, or anywhere in Karnataka for that matter, and if you dont know that flag (containing the yellow-red colour duo) actually represents the Karnataka State, and not just KRV, you've failed to be a responsible citizen of this state in the first place. I wonder how you seem to assume any responsbility in commenting here - a place where responsible citizens have come together for the better of the lands they live in.

Besides, you dont seem to understand that Bengaluru is undoubtedly inside Karnataka, and anything that applies to Karnataka, applies equally well to Bengaluru. The Karnataka flag being the least of such things that dont change. If there's a website related to Bengaluru, or even Malleshwaram, there's nothing *you* can do to say the flag does not have to be there. Please let this be clear to you!

And I take strong exception of your rather silly, childish and disturbing criticism of Karnataka Rakshana Vedike, while it is indeed doing a great job at protecting all that is in the interests of Kannada, Kannadiga and Karnataka. If you fail to understand this, and want to stay outside of this K-K-K factor, even while living in Karnataka, you are surely going to feel KRV's work as destructive; whereas what you need to understand is that you're the reason for KRV's existence in the first place. If you want such things to stop, realise your duty and be a true Kannadiga.

-Nijavaada

PS: This comment was originally posted in another blog on the 23rd Jan - editor

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