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Waiting for the new Reva?

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Written By silkboard - 15 March, 2009

Bangalore Electric Bikes Pollution Citizen Reports

The advertisements of electric bikes and scooters were everywhere when petrol prices were up in the sky. I wonder how are the sales now. Reva too was running ads back then, but no big news about them recently either. Talking of Reva, after reading around a bit (because I was considering buying it), speaking to a few folks who have also been interested, and two owners, here is what I learned:

  1. Range is too low. 80 Km claimed, a bit low in practical conditions is not enough. Cross town journey and back in Bangalore would be 30 x 2 = 60 Km. A bit too close for comfort, right? Not that you would go cross town everyday, but thats how you think when you want to buy a city vehicle.
  2. Unsafe? Looks too small and shaky, arguable but worthy point. What re the safety ratings for Reva? How come Tata Nano has managed to carry similar amount of metal and a gasoline engine inside, has managed to get road worthy safety, and yet, they would sell it for a lot less than Reva. I know, you would say the "invisible subsidies", "economy of scale" etc. But can their be no such business model with an electric or hybrid vehicle?
  3. Expensive. Why does that small thing cost so much? Same point I made above
  4. Battery change perceptions. How much does the battery replacement cost? And how often do you have to replace it? Reva salespersons may have the answers, but not everyone has access to one. So misconceptions fly.
  5. Battery charge time. How long does it take to charge it? Wouldn't it be great if I can get a quick charge at my friends place when I am over there for a visit?

Can't think of any other points that bother. Now, there was a press release over a month ago from them where they pre-announced a next generation Reva. What are the new features worthy of note against the 'complaints' I listed above?

  • next generation Lithium Ion Batteries ... range of up to 200 kms per charge
  • Fast charge Port (optional): Can achieve upto 90% charge in 1 hour
  • Solar panels: Roof mounted solar panels augment drive power and achieve added range

The press release only covered point #1 (range upped from 80km to 200 km), it didn't talk anything that will help tide over points 2 to 5. They said the new Reva will be launched in mid-2009, so we are not that far away.

Apart from the points I listed above, another grouse I have is this. Why do they have to try and make it look like an EV? If they want to sell Revas on the "make yourself seen as green" appeal, in my book, they are unlikely to sell much. A regular looking car that costs 2 to three times less to run and maintain - that's how I would like to see it.

There have been questions about Electric Vehicles in general - are they really green, or do they just shift the emission points up the supply chain to power plants. How about the batteries - how anti-green is the process of making and disposing them? Coming back to the Electric Bikes and Scooters, where are they? Why don't we see them everywhere?

Where are the EVs headed then? Bleak future as mass produced transport vehicles? Or will someone take up steps to convince us about their green-ness and viability, and create the infrastructure to build and operate them? Things like:

  • Battery refill points. Drop your discharged battery in, take a ready-to-go charged battery in. That is, till they figure how to charge them in 10 minutes flat.
  • Incentives to make us buy them. This is assuming everyone is convinced the EVs are indeed green. To me, they do give you more options as you can always produce electricity from green sources tomorrow.
  • Solar panel based charger for free along with the Electric Vehicle so that when at home, I can save on some electricity bill.
  • Wings, so that these can fly over those traffic jams. Now I am kidding ;)

Let us wait for the next gen Revas then.

-SB aka Pranav

PS: Those not in the know should check out Tesla Motors. They are coming out with a $60000 Electric car with regular Sedan Looks in 2011. Range? 240 km.

 

COMMENTS

REVA and road flooding?

s_yajaman - 15 March, 2009 - 15:53

SB,

Biggest concern for me is how does it do in flooded roads.  Given how quickly Bangalore roads flood, what happens if the REVA gets in 2 feet of water?  Will the electricals get wiped out?  Will the battery need to be replaced?  They must have thought about it at least post facto.

I think it is quite good for a city circuit.  One way 25 km is more than what the average Bangalorean does I think.  And if your office has a charging facility, you can drive back.  No gear shifting is a big plus as well.

Srivathsa

 

Technical content from their press release

silkboard - 15 March, 2009 - 16:28

(Since I didn't list all of these above), here is the full technical material from their press release

  1. Motor: High efficiency Alternating Current Induction Motor
  2. Li-ion technology: Safe and efficient Lithium Ion Phosphate (high energy density) batteries with a range of 200 kms per charge
  3. iEMS: Proprietary Energy Management System for intelligent management of energy flow, data acquisition, fault detection, user interface and communication
  4. Motor Controller: 3 phase induction motor driven by computer based controller. Programmable and adaptable to usage patterns
  5. Fast charge Port (optional): Can achieve upto 90% charge in 1 hour
  6. Solar panels: Roof mounted solar panels augment drive power and achieve added range 
  7. Tele-matics: Remote monitoring of car information
  8. GPS: Equipped with powerful global positioning system with inbuilt postal code search, 3D adjustable maps, distance indicator, memory card slots and multiple routing options

And here is a pic from the same press release dated Feb 9. Must be the upcoming Reva, though it looks the same as the present lot. I was curious to see how roof mounted solar panels look, but not so clear in this pic.

Expensive and does not solve the purpose

Rithesh - 15 March, 2009 - 17:02

Revas will never appeal to the masses. They are just too expensive - it is like the chicken and egg story - once mass production starts, prices might come down, but for mass production to happen - high demand - prices should be low.

Tax exemptions and duty concessions might help to some extent.

But is EV/Reva really an answer to our problems. A common complaint about electric cars is that they will move the pollution from cities to the location of the power plants - which is indeed true. Also considering that the efficiency of the modern fuel cars are much better than power plants, the net effect is it increases the pollution - defeating the very purpose of EVs.

Solar powered vehicles - probably the best solution - but solar panels (silicons) are very expensive and will screw up the cost benefit equations.

The other thing we generally forget about EVs is the batteries - arent they also ecologically very harmful - in India we dont have a regulated way of disposing of these batteries - i doubt this scenario will change in the near future.

Only way forward - public transport :)

My thought is it is suitable as a second car in the family

vvr - 16 March, 2009 - 06:45

My wife, daughter and I all have busy schedules (and often in coflict with each other) and so we are seriously looking at buying a Reva as the second car in the family. We had also heard about the new model with extended range (and a regular 4-seater to boot) but when my wife talked to the salesman, she found out that it is not due out for at least another year. Who knows, with the credit crunch it might even take longer for the launch since they might have to set up a new line. My wife asked about an upgrade (or trade in) when the new one comes out. The salesman's mumblings about this did not inspire confidence that it is a distinct possibility.

As stated by others, the EV vs. conventional gas tradeoffs are not that simple. I owned the very first model of the Honda hybrid in the US and felt morally superior until a friend (professor of environmental engg) told me that I was making very little difference by way of reduced carbon footprint. But the confounding thing is that she was not unequivocal about this. With all her training, she was finding it difficult to do a life cycle environmental impact  comparitive analysis on this.

In India, this analysis gets even more convoluted. For example, the act of disposing off the battery is harmful to the environment but could this be offset to some extent by the fact that even the very act of filling gas releases pollutants into the air and the ground. I routinely see gas station attendants overfill tanks and in the process spill a few CCs of the toxic stuff with each top up. Sometimes they do this to get a round  rupee figure on the pump, sometimes they do this to give the feeling to the owner that now the tank is really full and sometimes they do it just for fun!  I used to have to stand guard to make sure this did not happen while my car is filled but by now the guys at the regular station I go to know me -- "the crazy guy who throws a tantrum when I squeeze the last few drops into (actually mostly out) the tank".

EVs and the Power Situation

narayan82 - 15 March, 2009 - 15:35

SB

Another point to add would be:

  • If Reva/EV sales increase drastically will the power/electricty situation in bangalore worsen?

To have a sustainable network of EVs we need a lot more support for the situation. So pretty much at EVERY petrol station a re charge point is required. Similar to what you said - drop off and take on a new battery. But, these charging stations can be made solar!

So now infact the state has another excuse not to push EVs - increase in consumption of power. So the question is which is a more dire resource to conserve now - Petrol or Power!?

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore

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