HOT TOPICS

SPOTLIGHT AGENCIES

Notes from BMRC meeting

Written By silkboard - 31 October, 2008

Putting up a placeholder post for logs from the BMRC meeting today. 8 of us were present, so we should expect at least that many notes here.

I will log my notes a bit later, but in short, it was a great meeting. If you weren't there, you just missed it. Mr Sivasailam seems like a no non-sense go-getter type guy, and has a solid team with him. We got answers to all we asked, and equally frank rebuttals for some we probably shouldn't have :) All in all, this was a nice and open meeting that gave us a feel for their passion and commitment, something which we tend to take for granted these days.

COMMENTS

Reasons justifying parking are the very things to fight for

asj - 3 November, 2008 - 17:42

I am sad at some of the reasons for justifying parking. In Mumbai where all I ever used was buses and trains, walking was a part of daily routine. The nearest train station was 1.5 km away. In London, I use the train everyday, the station again is a mile away (1.6km). Have people in Bangalore forgotten how to walk, is walking going to become extinct? Huge number of tube and train users walk 10-15 minutes evefry day.

Buses - BEST is a model worth researching (I have said it so many times). They have 1500 less buses than Bangalore and yet manage to carry half a million more!!

But here we are at a time when climate change is the biggest of challenges wanting more investment in motorised transport?

WHY? Because, footpaths are not there. WHY can't we cycle? Because roads are unsafe, cycle tracks are not provided. WHY can't we use buses? Coz connectivity is poor......

All these things that are considered basic in developed world are missing and instead of fighting for them we are making lack of these facilities as an excuse for more motorisation.

Pune Corporation has now been pushed to developing a NMT cell. Is there one in Bangalore? If not, fight for it. We have spent many man hours discussing bus route and frequency rationalisation - take that agenda forward. If footpaths are missing, ask why IRC norms are not in place. Force the Corporation to accept on paper every road without footpath to be given a status of 'incomplete road works' (we have partly managed this in Puen).

Also look at the figures, rethink them, fast forward 20 years and then ask if more facilities for parking is the right way forward.

Mumbai's investment in 55 flyovers in 90s is described as the - 9% plan. This is because 82% use buses and trains, 9% use intermediate public transport (taxis and rickshaws) and 9% are in their cars. So for sake of 9% 1500 crores were spent when by now, the economic capital should have had 5000 Volvo like buses.

Now work out (for sake of ease use 10 instead of 9%) what 10% of 16 million is? It surpasses the number of vehicles in Pune today. Pune is 4 million, it will keep growing (as will Bangalore), to become another Mumbai. 80% of Pune uses personal vehicles. PMC wants to reverse the stats. They want to make 80% travel in PT (buses and trains) but are investing 10k crores on road expansion!! What they have not done is basic maths - by 2030, if Pune is 16 million, 20% of that still beats number of vehicles on Pune's roads today.

So work on projections. What will Bangalore's population be in 2030, 2040, 2050? Even 10% of that were to use vehicles, the roads will remain clogged.

I would ask BMRC MD another question (someone can if there is another meeting). Is the cost of ticket going to be cheaper than use of a scooter? If not what are they planning with the Corporation to change this equation.

Finally, yes, two wheelers are less space occupying, but they do pollute, they are dangerous and they contribute maximally to congestion by virtue of the ease with which they cause chaos on our roads - London got it right by calling it the Congestion charge (rather than a pollution charge lest people think overnight all vehicles will become electronic).

Start walking, start cycling, start using those 4000 buses and demand more of these 3 things.

ASJ

PS: Had to come back and edit my typo.

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Minutes of Meeting with BMRC Officials

Naveen - 1 November, 2008 - 05:54

Hi All,

The meeting commenced at about 1715 hrs & went on till about 1845 hrs. Mr.N Sivasailam (MD), Mr.Sudhir Chandra (Dir-Planning) & a few other BMRCL staff attended the meeting on behalf of BMRC.

Praja members who attended were: Pranav (Silkboard), Naveen, Murali, Suhas (srkulhalli), Srinidhi sampath (Blrsri), Ritesh, Usha (kiran8) & Aswin.

Below is a summary of the discussions between Praja members & BMRC, with comments :

1. Alignments for future phases of the Metro & why they were not being finalized in an effort to speed up the process.

Mr.Sivasailam explained that the DPR approved by the central & state governments, including financial arrangements was only for the 1st phase, & for the next phase, the process would have to be recommenced again. Alignments for two routes (EC to Yelahanka; & Kathriguppe to Whitefield) & extension of the 1st phase N-S route (Puttenahalli to NICE road, etc.) had been sent to DMRC for preparation of DPR/s. He also explained that the various processes for the 2nd phase would run parallel & overlap with the construction of the 1st phase to minimize delays.

When queried, BMRC officials clarified that construction of future underground lines (during Phase-2) that will likely have interchanges with Phase-1 underground lines (possibly at City market) would be possible & will be undertaken without disruption of services to the Metro Phase-1 underground lines that will already be in use by then.

2. Planning of multi–modal interchanges at key Metro stations.

BMRC was liaising with BMTC, BMLTA & other relevant bodies for effecting multi-modal exchanges. However, Mr. Sivasailam also emphasized that BMRCL’s jurisdiction did not extend beyond construction & delivery of the Metro railway.

3. Provisions for bus-bays, IPTs & parking facilities at Metro stations.

At least two bus bays would be provided at each station & areas earmarked for IPTs (autos, etc.). Parking would be made available at some key stations in the periphery, but not at stations within CBDs, as is the norm with most Metros worldwide.

Comment : This is perhaps the largest intra-city transport infrastructure project being executed & it is obvious that each stake holder needs to be fully aware of what plans are afoot by other bodies, particularly transport bodies about the steps being taken by each entity to address the various issues that will crop up, both during the construction phase, & more importantly, upon commencement of operations. Without working on various aspects together well in time, problem areas are bound to surface & it might well be too late & expensive to correct them, if at all possible, besides causing inconveniences to the general public.

This is especially troublesome since BMRC is of the opinion that it is too early now to work on feeder routes & that it might be more appropriate to do this about a year later. We are not aware if BMTC is working on this, & if so, what the status is.

An example of an issue that might pose problems is the access for entry & exit to /from stations for feeder buses – if proper plans are not chalked out in the design plans for stations that include overhead bus ramps that might be needed across roads, bus entry & exit arrangements from each direction might turn out to be poor, & buses may conflict with other traffic.

Another area that may pose obstacles is making arrangements for convenient pedestrian access between Metro stations & Commuter rail stations (at Yeswantapur, Malleswaram & Deepanjalinagar). This also needs to be planned upfront, else it might result in uncorrectable defect/s.

4. Public Inconveniences during tunneling for underground sections.

We were pleased to hear that only the stations would be built by cut & cover method, & the underground sections would all be executed with tunnel boring machines (TBMs), without any disruption on the surface.

5. Sharing of BMRC activities with the public.

Mr.Sivasailam explained that he believed in sharing information with the public about all BMRC’s activities & in the case of trees that had been cut along KR road, the locals had been briefed well before it had been done. Unfortunately, many English newspapers had reported this after the trees were cut, stoking some public sentiments unnecessarily.

6. Station designs that were changed recently.

Owing to difficulties & further disruptions for building the complicated designs as also due to high costs, the designs had to be changed.

7. Security arrangements.

BMRC advised that large packages & suitcases, etc. would be permitted on the Metro, unlike Delhi, where such is not permitted. Whilst this may be risky, it also has advantages & is convenient to some sections of the public, whilst it may sometimes cause inconveniences for daily commuters.

The move to permit luggage also makes it possible for BMRC to plan a metro line up to the new airport if & when a decision is taken, though the ride would take long with many stops in between, making it somewhat inconvenient for air travelers.

8. Other matters.

Mr.Sivasailam reiterated that BMRC’s web page was being maintained up-to-date, as also confirmed by some praja members. In this context, Praja members greatly appreciated their efforts in trying to keep the general public aware about all decisions, developments & the transparent tendering process that was being followed by them.

BMRC is not involved with the high-speed airport rail link, yet. However, if & when the state government takes a decision in this regard, they may be the body or a new entity might be set up for executing the project. Also, BMRC is not involved with the Monorail project.

Bombardier had opened up a Metro coach factory at Vadodara (Baroda), eyeing the Indian market with upcoming Metros in many cities. It has also bagged a contract from Delhi metro for coaches. See this link: (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/08/09/stories/2007080952561000.htm).

The meeting was very cordial & BMRC officials were quite transparent & open to discussion. BMRC’s commitment was very evident & well appreciated. It was clear that they were well up to the task, though certain areas, such as better liaison between other bodies through the construction phase itself was desirable.

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Timeline:

narayan82 - 1 November, 2008 - 06:09

Were BMRCL confident about sticking to the 2011 timeline - even after the 6 -7 months delay on MG road area itself. Also, were they able to give an idea as to when station construction and other consrtruction is going to be started? Maybe, if we had this information, Praja (I am willing to lead this) can create Maps for citizens showcasing "alternative" routes to avoid congestion. And maybe liase with the Traffic Police on this. We could also design the signage/routing for vehicles. With the amount of discussion and knowledge on board this could be a boon to the city through congested times.

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Good feel after meeting, we need to do our homework better

srkulhalli - 1 November, 2008 - 06:36

As usual, psraman sir first to post ! Thanks for detailed listing Agree with SB, overall got a feel management calibre is pretty high. Good clarity with maturity on what he should be doing and more importantly what he should not be doing. Could have been technically a little bit more savy, in my opinion. I think we(as praja) need to do better. None of our points, myself included, could stand first order scrutiny. Our research needs more depth. At the very least we should have a prior meeting and bounce of our comments of each other and refine our points accordingly. If we want 1 hr from the complete top brass of BMTC, we should be willing to commit 4 hrs of our time upahead. Quick take on various points Schedule : As far as I recollect it was 2011 for 1st phase and 2015/16 for second phase That he can put up his project milestones on his website was probably the only accepted suggestion. Mode Integration: Stations : 2 to 6/8 bus bays at each station + auto and cab pick up/drop. No facility for private car/ two wheeler parking (not given for Metro anywhere) Feeder services : In discussion with BMTC - too early to worry as routing can be decided at a later stage (I agree, station design most important at this stage) Route alignment : Already provisioned in PRR for surface based METRO. In general METRO is either elevated or underground. Methinks having it on surface with 10m underpasses every 500m is still far cheaper and viable. But needs more data and better understanding of Metro vs suburbans. Was not too convinced by his answer since he said it is done in PRR but then said it is not a viable idea. Having it along ORR as well - probably mono can do the job if it is cheaper, need to follow up with BMLTA Generally they cannot publish alignments which are underdiscussion as it results in unneccessary confusion, are subject to legal issues etc. High speed rail link : Does not fall under his department. Can question DPR Communiction, PR & transparency : As soon as a decision is taken, it is avaialble on their website Were there 4 days before the tree cutting and met the MLA Our meeting itself. in general doing their job ... but they have to be carefull what is official as that can cause trouble. Costing: Mentioned chennai metro claims Rs 80cr/km for elevated METRO. Was again not too convinced on his answer. How much it costs (rough breakup - civil, electrical, rolling stock ...) should have been on the tip of his fingers.

Suhas

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Mr. N. Sivasailam, MD BMRCL 31-10-2008 Meeting-Minutes

psaram42 - 1 November, 2008 - 04:17

The meeting started around 5:15PM.

Mr. Sivasalam started the meeting with mutual self introductions by Praja members followed by those of his team.

Mr. Naveen started the dialog to be taken up later by Pranav and Suhas point by point.
1. Full details of all phases. Not available except the current phase
     a. Approval for survey work for ii phase obatained
     b. Property Value speculation un avoidable
2. First Phase.
     a. Completion of 2011
     b. Working Model
          i. Market Survey
          ii. Contracting Model
          iii. Experts pool
          iv. IPR Drawings are protected with copy rights. Hence not shared till copy rights issued
          v. Litigations are major hindrance
          vi. No plan B in case of road blocks.
          vii. Tunnel boring to start by Dec 2009
          viii. 6400 Crores 35 KM stretch
3. Communications Transparency through Web Site
      a. The MD ascertained that Praja members were keeping track of the official BMRCL site on the web
      b. He made it clear that any decisions as and when taken will be immediately posted on the site.
      c. The objective being to help reducing misrepresenting of facts by media.
      d. Nothing is secret
      e. All Secrets are well guarded.
      f. New standards are set up in public relationship
         i. Information Open to public
         ii. Suggestions Welcome
         iii. Mr. Sivasailam was critical about PR aspects of some of our IT BT Companies
4. Integration aspects
     a. Provision for Bus stops
     b. Feeder areas calculation by Clover leaf, Trumpet methods of catchments area
     c. Metro does not work in isolation
     d. Weekly interactions
     e. No proactive integration
5. Design Aspects
    a. Latest Design methodology as on to day
    b. Station Loading
         i. Disending
         ii. Embarking
         iii. Surge factor
         iv. Passenger per minute
    c. Parking Only at terminals
         i. Bus
         ii. Car
         iii. Auto
    d. Power Supply
          i. BESCOM input from two places
          ii. Simulation studies
          iii. Battery Back up for under ground AC
          iv. 50 Mega Watts Power load
    e. Standard Gauge
         i. All Designs are locked in
         ii. No Vendor Lock
     f. Station Architecture
        i. Competition world wide
        ii. Consortium has done it
        iii. Station designs were iterated.
6. Looking Forward will be beneficial
     a. Mysore
     b. Mangalore

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Notes from BMRC meeting

Written By silkboard - 31 October, 2008

Bangalore Praja Meeting Action BMRC

Putting up a placeholder post for logs from the BMRC meeting today. 8 of us were present, so we should expect at least that many notes here.

COMMENTS

Reasons justifying parking are the very things to fight for

asj - 3 November, 2008 - 17:42

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Minutes of Meeting with BMRC Officials

Naveen - 1 November, 2008 - 05:54

Hi All,

The meeting commenced at about 1715 hrs & went on till about 1845 hrs. Mr.N Sivasailam (MD), Mr.Sudhir Chandra (Dir-Planning) & a few other BMRCL staff attended the meeting on behalf of BMRC.

Praja members who attended were: Pranav (Silkboard), Naveen, Murali, Suhas (srkulhalli), Srinidhi sampath (Blrsri), Ritesh, Usha (kiran8) & Aswin.

Below is a summary of the discussions between Praja members & BMRC, with comments :

1. Alignments for future phases of the Metro & why they were not being finalized in an effort to speed up the process.

Mr.Sivasailam explained that the DPR approved by the central & state governments, including financial arrangements was only for the 1st phase, & for the next phase, the process would have to be recommenced again. Alignments for two routes (EC to Yelahanka; & Kathriguppe to Whitefield) & extension of the 1st phase N-S route (Puttenahalli to NICE road, etc.) had been sent to DMRC for preparation of DPR/s. He also explained that the various processes for the 2nd phase would run parallel & overlap with the construction of the 1st phase to minimize delays.

When queried, BMRC officials clarified that construction of future underground lines (during Phase-2) that will likely have interchanges with Phase-1 underground lines (possibly at City market) would be possible & will be undertaken without disruption of services to the Metro Phase-1 underground lines that will already be in use by then.

2. Planning of multi–modal interchanges at key Metro stations.

BMRC was liaising with BMTC, BMLTA & other relevant bodies for effecting multi-modal exchanges. However, Mr. Sivasailam also emphasized that BMRCL’s jurisdiction did not extend beyond construction & delivery of the Metro railway.

3. Provisions for bus-bays, IPTs & parking facilities at Metro stations.

At least two bus bays would be provided at each station & areas earmarked for IPTs (autos, etc.). Parking would be made available at some key stations in the periphery, but not at stations within CBDs, as is the norm with most Metros worldwide.

Comment : This is perhaps the largest intra-city transport infrastructure project being executed & it is obvious that each stake holder needs to be fully aware of what plans are afoot by other bodies, particularly transport bodies about the steps being taken by each entity to address the various issues that will crop up, both during the construction phase, & more importantly, upon commencement of operations. Without working on various aspects together well in time, problem areas are bound to surface & it might well be too late & expensive to correct them, if at all possible, besides causing inconveniences to the general public.

This is especially troublesome since BMRC is of the opinion that it is too early now to work on feeder routes & that it might be more appropriate to do this about a year later. We are not aware if BMTC is working on this, & if so, what the status is.

An example of an issue that might pose problems is the access for entry & exit to /from stations for feeder buses – if proper plans are not chalked out in the design plans for stations that include overhead bus ramps that might be needed across roads, bus entry & exit arrangements from each direction might turn out to be poor, & buses may conflict with other traffic.

Another area that may pose obstacles is making arrangements for convenient pedestrian access between Metro stations & Commuter rail stations (at Yeswantapur, Malleswaram & Deepanjalinagar). This also needs to be planned upfront, else it might result in uncorrectable defect/s.

4. Public Inconveniences during tunneling for underground sections.

We were pleased to hear that only the stations would be built by cut & cover method, & the underground sections would all be executed with tunnel boring machines (TBMs), without any disruption on the surface.

5. Sharing of BMRC activities with the public.

Mr.Sivasailam explained that he believed in sharing information with the public about all BMRC’s activities & in the case of trees that had been cut along KR road, the locals had been briefed well before it had been done. Unfortunately, many English newspapers had reported this after the trees were cut, stoking some public sentiments unnecessarily.

6. Station designs that were changed recently.

Owing to difficulties & further disruptions for building the complicated designs as also due to high costs, the designs had to be changed.

7. Security arrangements.

BMRC advised that large packages & suitcases, etc. would be permitted on the Metro, unlike Delhi, where such is not permitted. Whilst this may be risky, it also has advantages & is convenient to some sections of the public, whilst it may sometimes cause inconveniences for daily commuters.

The move to permit luggage also makes it possible for BMRC to plan a metro line up to the new airport if & when a decision is taken, though the ride would take long with many stops in between, making it somewhat inconvenient for air travelers.

8. Other matters.

Mr.Sivasailam reiterated that BMRC’s web page was being maintained up-to-date, as also confirmed by some praja members. In this context, Praja members greatly appreciated their efforts in trying to keep the general public aware about all decisions, developments & the transparent tendering process that was being followed by them.

BMRC is not involved with the high-speed airport rail link, yet. However, if & when the state government takes a decision in this regard, they may be the body or a new entity might be set up for executing the project. Also, BMRC is not involved with the Monorail project.

Bombardier had opened up a Metro coach factory at Vadodara (Baroda), eyeing the Indian market with upcoming Metros in many cities. It has also bagged a contract from Delhi metro for coaches. See this link: (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/08/09/stories/2007080952561000.htm).

The meeting was very cordial & BMRC officials were quite transparent & open to discussion. BMRC’s commitment was very evident & well appreciated. It was clear that they were well up to the task, though certain areas, such as better liaison between other bodies through the construction phase itself was desirable.

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Timeline:

narayan82 - 1 November, 2008 - 06:09

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Good feel after meeting, we need to do our homework better

srkulhalli - 1 November, 2008 - 06:36

Suhas

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Mr. N. Sivasailam, MD BMRCL 31-10-2008 Meeting-Minutes

psaram42 - 1 November, 2008 - 04:17

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Notes from BMRC meeting

COMMENTS

The meeting commenced at about 1715 hrs & went on till about 1845 hrs. Mr.N Sivasailam (MD), Mr.Sudhir Chandra (Dir-Planning) & a few other BMRCL staff attended the meeting on behalf of BMRC.

Praja members who attended were: Pranav (Silkboard), Naveen, Murali, Suhas (srkulhalli), Srinidhi sampath (Blrsri), Ritesh, Usha (kiran8) & Aswin.

Below is a summary of the discussions between Praja members & BMRC, with comments :

BMRC was liaising with BMTC, BMLTA & other relevant bodies for effecting multi-modal exchanges. However, Mr. Sivasailam also emphasized that BMRCL’s jurisdiction did not extend beyond construction & delivery of the Metro railway.

At least two bus bays would be provided at each station & areas earmarked for IPTs (autos, etc.). Parking would be made available at some key stations in the periphery, but not at stations within CBDs, as is the norm with most Metros worldwide.

This is especially troublesome since BMRC is of the opinion that it is too early now to work on feeder routes & that it might be more appropriate to do this about a year later. We are not aware if BMTC is working on this, & if so, what the status is.

Another area that may pose obstacles is making arrangements for convenient pedestrian access between Metro stations & Commuter rail stations (at Yeswantapur, Malleswaram & Deepanjalinagar). This also needs to be planned upfront, else it might result in uncorrectable defect/s.

We were pleased to hear that only the stations would be built by cut & cover method, & the underground sections would all be executed with tunnel boring machines (TBMs), without any disruption on the surface.

Owing to difficulties & further disruptions for building the complicated designs as also due to high costs, the designs had to be changed.

BMRC advised that large packages & suitcases, etc. would be permitted on the Metro, unlike Delhi, where such is not permitted. Whilst this may be risky, it also has advantages & is convenient to some sections of the public, whilst it may sometimes cause inconveniences for daily commuters.

The move to permit luggage also makes it possible for BMRC to plan a metro line up to the new airport if & when a decision is taken, though the ride would take long with many stops in between, making it somewhat inconvenient for air travelers.

BMRC is not involved with the high-speed airport rail link, yet. However, if & when the state government takes a decision in this regard, they may be the body or a new entity might be set up for executing the project. Also, BMRC is not involved with the Monorail project.

Bombardier had opened up a Metro coach factory at Vadodara (Baroda), eyeing the Indian market with upcoming Metros in many cities. It has also bagged a contract from Delhi metro for coaches. See this link: (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/08/09/stories/2007080952561000.htm).

PRAJA.IN COMMENT GUIDELINES

Notes from BMRC meeting

COMMENTS

The meeting commenced at about 1715 hrs & went on till about 1845 hrs. Mr.N Sivasailam (MD), Mr.Sudhir Chandra (Dir-Planning) & a few other BMRCL staff attended the meeting on behalf of BMRC.

Praja members who attended were: Pranav (Silkboard), Naveen, Murali, Suhas (srkulhalli), Srinidhi sampath (Blrsri), Ritesh, Usha (kiran8) & Aswin.

Below is a summary of the discussions between Praja members & BMRC, with comments :

BMRC was liaising with BMTC, BMLTA & other relevant bodies for effecting multi-modal exchanges. However, Mr. Sivasailam also emphasized that BMRCL’s jurisdiction did not extend beyond construction & delivery of the Metro railway.

At least two bus bays would be provided at each station & areas earmarked for IPTs (autos, etc.). Parking would be made available at some key stations in the periphery, but not at stations within CBDs, as is the norm with most Metros worldwide.

This is especially troublesome since BMRC is of the opinion that it is too early now to work on feeder routes & that it might be more appropriate to do this about a year later. We are not aware if BMTC is working on this, & if so, what the status is.

Another area that may pose obstacles is making arrangements for convenient pedestrian access between Metro stations & Commuter rail stations (at Yeswantapur, Malleswaram & Deepanjalinagar). This also needs to be planned upfront, else it might result in uncorrectable defect/s.

We were pleased to hear that only the stations would be built by cut & cover method, & the underground sections would all be executed with tunnel boring machines (TBMs), without any disruption on the surface.

Owing to difficulties & further disruptions for building the complicated designs as also due to high costs, the designs had to be changed.

BMRC advised that large packages & suitcases, etc. would be permitted on the Metro, unlike Delhi, where such is not permitted. Whilst this may be risky, it also has advantages & is convenient to some sections of the public, whilst it may sometimes cause inconveniences for daily commuters.

The move to permit luggage also makes it possible for BMRC to plan a metro line up to the new airport if & when a decision is taken, though the ride would take long with many stops in between, making it somewhat inconvenient for air travelers.

BMRC is not involved with the high-speed airport rail link, yet. However, if & when the state government takes a decision in this regard, they may be the body or a new entity might be set up for executing the project. Also, BMRC is not involved with the Monorail project.

Bombardier had opened up a Metro coach factory at Vadodara (Baroda), eyeing the Indian market with upcoming Metros in many cities. It has also bagged a contract from Delhi metro for coaches. See this link: (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/08/09/stories/2007080952561000.htm).

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